I am looking for a new car to buy in the next 2-3 months and have been looking at a lot of models. Most of the GM cars have a steering wheel remote to their head unit. The car I am looking at, the Pontiac Aztec GT, actually has 2 control units in it to control the 10 speaker Pioneer system. (One in the steering wheel and one in the back of the car where the tent option goes.) Now I have read the FAQ topic 'Can I hook up a steering wheel remote to Empeg?' and know that you can hook this up with an adaptor that would convert the signal from the controls into the Sony Media Stick signals and control the Empeg.

My question is has someone done this yet? I know it can be done but would like to hear from someone whom has done it. The FAQ is good in letting me know it can be done but the supporting sites just confuse me on how to do it. The adaptor site looks useful but I wouldn't know which adaptor to buy, how to hook it up, or if it would even work. Also, it looks like this type of remote is on all GM cars so I would hope someone has done this kind of modification before.

Confused,
Greg

P.S. I am not dead set on the Aztec GT and am looking for an SUV type of vehicle for my growing family. Any suggestions would be welcomed.

Well, since the tuners just now came out (and the tuner has the Sony interface), there's only a slim chance that someone has already done it. Want to be our guinea pig?

One thing, though... Don't buy the Aztec.

___________
Tony Fabris

I have no problem being the guinea pig. Just need a little focus, that's all.

Why would you not recommend the Aztec? I know about the problem with the rear ending at low speeds cauing the entire back window to shatter but is there other safety issues involved or the fact that the car looks butt ugly?

Greg

is there other safety issues involved or the fact that the car looks butt ugly?

To me, those two are the same thing. I mean, how safe can a car be if it induces uncontrollable vomiting for the other drivers on the road?



___________
Tony Fabris

yeah, that thing is the most hideous contraption i've ever seen. I don't know about it's utilitarian quality as far as camping and all that... but... GAH... i don't understand how that ever made it past review.


|| loren.cox ||

Some of the other concept cars from that era have the same god-awful disposable-razor front end grille. The new Cadillacs are supposed to look like that, too.

I can only assume that they went through a design/review process similar to the Homer-designed car in that episode of The Simpons. Anyone remember that one?

___________
Tony Fabris

LOL... that was hilarious stuff.



|| loren.cox ||

To me, those two are the same thing. I mean, how safe can a car be if it induces uncontrollable vomiting for the other drivers on the road?

It's still personal preference. Given the Aztec or the PT Cruiser, I'd take the Aztec any day. Of course it's also a personal preference for the people around here to be buying puke colored cars lately. That one I still don't get.

Oh well, to me it's more about the inside of the car anyway, since thats what I have to deal with when driving. I probably have only a few hours of viewing the outside of my car, compaired to a week or two of sitting somewhere inside it.

True that. THe inside is pretty spiffy, though it did seem cramped for a car as big as it is. The AV system that was installed int he one i saw was pretty impressive, albeit lacking an empeg.


|| loren.cox ||

True that. THe inside is pretty spiffy, though it did seem cramped for a car as big as it is. The AV system that was installed int he one i saw was pretty impressive, albeit lacking an empeg.

Interesting... Outer dimensions are almost the same as BMW X5, and interior room, especially legroom, is, according to the specs, better. Compared to the Bimmer it is almost comically ugly IMO, but I guess we will get used to that kind of styling. What I find funny is the blurb on their web site, talking about 'the first Sport Recreational Vehicle'. Apparently, the sport vehicle is recreational if it has removable center console-cum-cooler and practical cargo space gadgets, and merely activity (BMW marketing gem) otherwise. If they only spent all that time vasted on inventing new slogans and acronyms actually designing their vehicles...


Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Zagreb, Croatia
Q#5196, MkII#80000376, 18GB green

Greg,

I recently was in the market for a new vehicle. My decision was based on it having 4WD and a decent amount of cargo space. I had been looking at the Aztek (actually saw the original concept car... which, I might add, looked very NICE before they sliced and diced it to what they're now selling... anyhow...) and was fairly happy with it, but when I got close to it, looking from the rear, I was totally turned off by it's fat ass. It just didn't look nice. I'll admit that the interior is very nice, but the captain's chairs seem out of place in a CAR and make the inside seem cramped.

Then a friend of mine told me about the new Ford Escape. I went to a dealer to find one (had some difficulty finding one in stock at the time!) and instantly fell in love with it. It's not too big for everyday driving; is very good on gas, especially for an SUV; has a good amount of horsepower behind it; has quite a bit of cargo space even before you put the rear seats down (you'd be surprised how much you can get into that seemingly small space!); has a ton of room for the front passengers and quite a bit of leg room for the people in the back seats (my g/f's brother plays football, is 6' 2" and 280 lbs., and was very comfortable back there). I love the moonroof, too!!! It's also about 3-7 grand less (fully loaded) than the Aztek (base)! My single complaint is that it doesn't have steering wheel controls for the radio. I can live with that, though... I'll be getting my tuner and Sony stick soon enough.


George

I will take that into consideration. I am really hesitant about the Fords because of all the recalls and problems my friends have had with them. But it never hurts to test drive. My main reasoning for getting a new car is because my g'friend is pregnant and fitting a car seat into the back of a 2dr Honda Civic Coupe is not my idea of fun. So I am looking or the big family ride.

Right now I have the short list down to the following:
Honda Odessey
Pontiac Aztec
Toyota Rav4

Looking at:
Ford Escape
Ford Explorer
Subaru Outback
VW Passat 4dr

Test driving to get cool stuff:
Lincoln Navigator (To get a box set of Cirque Du Solei CDs)
Honda CRV (To get a Honda Fleece Jacket)

Greg

Subaru Outback

I had a friend with a 2000, and it was quite nice. Enough room for people, and not a huge monstorsity on the road. Plus it's probably at or near the top of your list for gas milage. I definitly recommend it, as to me it's one of the few "SUV"s I can stand. The Aztec stands out at me for some of the features it offers, but between the two, I'd get the Outback.

As I see you prefer 4x4s, how about Volvo V70 Cross Country? A bit more expensive than most of those on your list, but I think it is worth it. If you were in Europe I would have recommended Renault Scenic RX4 on the compact side of the spectrum...

Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Zagreb, Croatia
Q#5196, MkII#80000376, 18GB green

Ahem, ahem. I think you know which one I would recommend, but I'd hate to, seeing as I would not be (as far as I can tell) the only minivan-owning empeg owner. (that was a horrible sentence, but oh well).

Anyway, I can tell you all about the Honda Odyssey.

First of all, I think it would be hard to find someone, despite the minivan stigma, who thought the Odyssey was less attractive than the Aztec. As far as minivans go, I think it's the best looking. Honda really tried to get away from the rounded, Caravan/Silhouette style. I think one of the designers said he was going for an "armor look". Whatever that means.

Okay, it's a minivan. Not cool, right? Wrong! Lift up the hood when a friend disses you. Show them that V6, 210 HP, 3.5 liter V-Tech engine and that'll shut 'em up nicely. This thing zips like hell for a minivan. This is coming from a college student who spent most of his high school days driving an Eclipse GSX (turbo). It really is a car-like feel. I swear the thing drives so nicely.

You want room? For a minivan that's comparative in size to all the others, I believe it still has the most cargo capacity. In fact, I think it has the MOST capacity of just about any vehicle, including the Excursion. That's pretty damn impressive. Of course, the greatest aspect of how the space is utilized is the famous fold-down 3rd row. Up, there is an unbelieveable amount of room in that "pit". I fit $150 worth of groceries in the van with the third row up, and still had a hell of alot of room. with that row down, you won't believe how much room there is. Then with the two middle seats out, it feels cavernous in there. I can bend over with my legs fully extended in it . The size of the remaining area is so huge that I was able to haul 30 4'x8' sheets of plywood in it. (and as a college student, I ave, of course, come to the realization that 4'x8' is about a double ).

Anyway, if you've got anymore questions, ask me. I can't speak to the others really well, except that the Aztec is indeed butt ugly, and the Rav4 seems a bit small, doesn't it?

The Odyssey is simply incredibly well built, has a great engine, is compfortable, and shouldn't embarass you in front of your friends.

Sorry for the long rant, but I love my car.

DiGNAN
Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da, etc.

just one more thing: the Explorer was another on the list for me too, but I dont' think they cn justify the price. I can't see spending that much when the Odyssey was much more attractive for the same price.

ps-don't let the sound of the Odyssey stereo fool you. it sounds like ass, but once the head unit is taken out and the empeg and an amp put in, the speakers sound perfectly fine.

DiGNAN
Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da, etc.

Hehe... I was trying very hard not to sound like DiGNAN just did . I know what he means. I definitely feel that way about my Escape. But, I've explained my reasoning for buying it already. I will second his statement about the Explorer... the price is not justified. My boss bought an Explorer about 3 weeks after I got my Escape. While I tried to talk him out of it, it didn't work. All I hear him say now is "I'm constantly at the gas station!"

Let us know how your search goes. I think we're all interested.


George

Back to your original question, Someone at my school did a senior design project on interfacing steering wheel radio controls to IR commands for an aftermarket sony head unit. As I remember, it is a one wire interface with a resistor bank in the steering wheel to select an analog level. Each quantization level corresponded to a command. If you get serious about doing it I'll get more info and even help since it is really easy.

I have a friend that bought an escape and is very happy with it. He takes it off road into the mountains because he is into caving (spelunking?). He mentioned it was a much better value than an explorer because or price/size/features.

Alex Lear

I do have one question. Which model did you get? If you got the EX, did you get it with GPS? If so, how well does it function with the Empeg? I got a look at the Odessey this weekend and will be taking one for a test drive tonight. After that, I will post an update on how it is going.

Greg

I remember, it is a one wire interface with a resistor bank in the steering wheel to select an analog level.

Isn't this the way that the sony wired remote works? You said your friend's project was IR-related. From your description it sounds like it was wired rather than IR.

___________
Tony Fabris

Yeah, I got the EX w/NAV. To answer your question, no. The NAV does not interface with the empeg. However, it doesn't interface with ANY stereo but the [horrendous] factory one. To me this is no big deal.

Forst of all, the only interaction that the NAV has with the stereo is with the voice directions. I drove around for a while with factory stereo and the voice on. For driving around town where you'll need directions every few blocks it was fine. For road trips? Let's just say that from Northern Virginia to Williamsburg is about a 160-180 mile trip. About every 3-5 miles there are exits. Imagine that at every intersection, a voice cuts into your music, softly telling you to KEEP DRIVING STRAIGHT, then your music comes blasting back again (this assumes you listen to your music loud ). Regardless, it's annoying.

So basically, it doesn't matter. The NAV system works incredibly well, however. It's VERY accurate, and it always gets a wow from passengers.

DiGNAN
Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da, etc.

Tony, the wired part is from the original steering wheel to the old radio. But to make it compatable with aftermarket radios they decided to turn the signal into an IR signal from the wired part. There is an IR transmitter that sits somewhere in front of the radio. This way the same system could be used with any aftermarket radio by simply changing the IR codes.

I can see why people like to keep their steering wheel buttons when they upgrade. It really is convienient.

Alex Lear

Let us know how your search goes. I think we're all interested.

Rather than bore everyone here with a long post I wrote a detailed story and posted it at http://www.gregdemetrick.com/new_car.html. The brief of that follows:

Test drive results:
Toyota Rav4 - Wasn't overtly impressed
Honda CRV - Felt too much like the old Suzuki's
Honda Odyessy - Pleaseantly surprised
Potiac Aztec - Surprised in a different way

A decision has been made but I won't post it to the BBS until the paperwork is signed. Gotta keep you in suspense. :)

Greg

For road trips? Let's just say that from Northern Virginia to Williamsburg is about a 160-180 mile trip. About every 3-5 miles there are exits. Imagine that at every intersection, a voice cuts into your music, softly telling you to KEEP DRIVING STRAIGHT, then your music comes blasting back again

Yea, but then you would completely miss the turn off for Jefferson's Home and an easy opportunity to deface the campus of VA Tech. Not that I would ever do a thing like that.

I used to live in Norfolk so I know the exact roads you speak of. The drive to DC would be a beast as well.

Greg

Well, this is the final close out of this thread. I went ahead and got the Honda Odessy. The original ship date was supposed to be end of November but it actually came in last week. The test drive was INCREDIBLE. The 2002 model has a lot of get-up-and-go power and the interior is nice and roomy. So I am just waiting on the last dotting of i-s and crossing of t-s for the insurance and plate transfers before picking it up. I totally removed the Civic Install during lunch yesterday and shed a tear. (OK not really)

Once I have the new car, I am going to shoot video of the complete install so there will probably be quite a bit of Install Porn to follow. Just a couple of questions for everyone.

1) In my old install, I replaced the back speakers with 5" MD Quart which I removed and are now sitting on my desk. Is it worthwhile to put those speakers into the Odessey or is that just a waste of time seeing how it is a new car with new speakers?
2) What is the best place to install the Amp seeing how there really isn't a trunk in this car? I am thinking under the driver side seat but my concern is they are heated seats.
3) I have all the wiring from my Civic install, is it ok to re-use these wires seeing how they are only a couple of montsh old or should I go with fresh wires and connections? I don't think preformance will be effected but wanted your opinions on this.

Greg

Car seats fit great in the Audi A4 ;-)

Also, I really enjoyed the extended cab Ford F-150 pickup (four doors, the two rear ones are small, but work), and of course the quad cab (four full size doors) F-250 diesel truck.

But if you really want SUV ... Jeeps and Dodge Durangos are comfortable and fun to drive.

RioCar (40Gig) Blue/Red/Green
'01 Audi A4 2.8 Quattro

1) In my old install, I replaced the back speakers with 5" MD Quart which I removed and are now sitting on my desk. Is it worthwhile to put those speakers into the Odessey or is that just a waste of time seeing how it is a new car with new speakers?


I'd certainly put them in if they will fit. Your Quarts are going to be a hell of a lot better than the OEM speakers... Think, lowest bidder...


3) I have all the wiring from my Civic install, is it ok to re-use these wires seeing how they are only a couple of montsh old or should I go with fresh wires and connections? I don't think preformance will be effected but wanted your opinions on this.


As long as it's still in good condition, there should be no problem reusing. Be sure to check the sheath for cuts and nicks. Electrical fires are not a good time.

In reply to:

---

I'd certainly put them in if they will fit. Your Quarts are going to be a hell of a lot better than the OEM speakers... Think, lowest bidder...

He has the high end system though and ripping the speakers may be a pain. I would want to know what the factory speakers are.....

---

In reply to:

---

2) What is the best place to install the Amp seeing how there really isn't a trunk in this car? I am thinking under the driver side seat but my concern is they are heated seats.

Drivers seat may be a bad idea if the amp heats up. Best idea, if it is feasible: Between the front seats, then create a shelf over the amp and include one or two low voltage fans blowing the heat out from under the shelf. I've seen this in three mini-vans and installed it before in one. Nice little setup and blending the shelf into the interior with a rug is easy....

---

//== MK2 20 GB Single Drive, Green Face Plate Currently installed in Toyota Solara ==\\

He has the high end system though and ripping the speakers may be a pain. I would want to know what the factory speakers are...

Historically, even the high-end factory systems have cheap speakers.

First rule of aftermarket stereo upgrading: Do the speakers first, it's the easiest way to improve the sound.

Ripping the speakers is rarely a "pain" as long as you know how to disassemble the panels without damaging anything. This is where the Crutchfiled Master Sheets are worth their weight in gold. They have detailed instructions on how to remove everything needed to get at your speakers easily.

___________
Tony Fabris

Not sure I am 100% agreeance with that. Today's factory speakers can rate well. Many of the high end sound packages have name brand speakers. My old car had MB Quarts in the front and factory in the rear. I was powering them with a high end amp (Which I think is first importance when upgrading a stereo system, with speakers being last, unless absolutely necessary). The factory speakers held their weight against the MB Quarts without a problem.

Basically, unless you are planning to pump huge wattage through the main speakers, I would hook it up as is and see how it sounds. Then, decide whether the speakers should be replaced....

And the "pain" I was referring to was that of the ripping the car apart in the first place....

Just my thoughts on it based solely on personal experience.

//== MK2 20 GB Single Drive, Green Face Plate Currently installed in Toyota Solara ==\\

Not sure I am 100% agreeance with that. Today's factory speakers can rate well.


My "Top of the line" Acura speakers were/are... [censored].

I doubt that Honda is going to be putting better speaks in the honda line as opposed to the acura.

Putting BA's in their place improved the sound by an order of magnitude (subjective, of course).

I've still got the OEM speakers for when I sell the car... They aren't anything special.

My car came with JBL and I am quite happy with them. They easily handle the 50 watts per channel put into them....

As with everything, it is a matter of personal preference and the direction in which one wishes to put their limited resources (time and money).

-Steve

//== MK2 20 GB Single Drive, Green Face Plate Currently installed in Toyota Solara ==\\

1) In my old install, I replaced the back speakers with 5" MB Quart which I removed and are now sitting on my desk. Is it worthwhile to put those speakers into the Odessey or is that just a waste of time seeing how it is a new car with new speakers?

Keep the Quarts!

Understand that car manufacturers cut costs wherever humanly possible -- when you are talking volumes of hundreds of thousands of units, if you can save $10 on each car, that is a monumental savings -- millions of dollars.

So when they can cut $40--$50 out of the expense of building the car by putting in speakers that cost them $6 apiece instead of $30 apiece, and affect the performance of the car so slightly that only a few lunatic audiophiles will even notice, they are going to do so.

Ask Paul Grzelak (pgrzelak) about how he likes his 'Quarts in his Buick. (You can read about it in a thread starting here if you want more info.)

Now for the bad news... hang onto those MB Quarts because they are now collectors items. MB Quart has gone bankrupt and has been purchased by Rockford Fosgate. I don't want to step on anyone's toes here, but in my neck of the woods, at least, Rockford Fosgate is looked upon with considerable disdain (my stereo shop won't stock them, will special order them if a customer absolutely insists, but will give manufacturer warranty only instead of the shop's customary lifetime warranty on any product they sell and install) and I feel it is only a matter of time, and not much time at that, before Rockford Fosgate starts slapping the MB Quart labels on their own (IMHO) greatly inferior products and soon after that MB Quart will be only another forgotten name, proving once again that marketing will win out over quality.

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

If you are really considering a SUV for space reasons and not off road capability then I'd suggest looking at a wagon. The VW Passat and Suburu Legacy/Outback wagons have about the same cargo capacity as a mid size SUV but are much more fun to drive and cheaper to operate. I own a '00 Passat wagon and I love it. They have double DIN slots in the dash making the empeg installation easy without needing any sort of retrofit kit (and you can sill have a CD player, if that's important). The new Passats have steering wheel mounted audio controls but I don't know anything about them.

I'm a big proponent of wagons. For some reason that I don't understand, people in the US love SUV's when they really aren't the best choice for how most people use them.

Though if family utility is your top criteria you really can't beat a minivan. Then again, that Aztec is really a SUV shell on top of a minivan platform.

-Dylan

I appologize for brining up an old thread, but I seemed to have missed it when Kazama said he was actually going to buy the Odyssey. So to start...CONGRATS! It's a blast. I love it. I'll tell you what I did and maybe it will help.

First of all, I have a thread in the install forum with pictures. Did you get the NAV? Just wondering. My installer reccomended under the driver's seat. It works well there.

I have a suggestion on the speakers. Frankly, I think everyone here has been correct so far, but I think it varies from car to car. Here is my summary of the Odyssey's factory system:

Speakers: Good
Head unit: Satan

I swear that once you put the empeg and an amp in there, the speakers will be fine. However, I didn't upgrade because I didn't see the need in spending the money on speakers. You already have them, so I say use them. It can't hurt.

Anyway, I hope you're enjoying your new ride. I still enjoy it after over a year of driving it. Look forward to two things when it comes to friends and your automatic doors:

1) a look of amazement
2) the phrase: "you don't have to push/pull it."

I appologize for brining up an old thread, but I seemed to have missed it when Kazama said he was actually going to buy the Odyssey. So to start...CONGRATS! It's a blast. I love it. I'll tell you what I did and maybe it will help.

I think this is becoming the thread that wouldn't die. Thanks! I am definately loving it so far.

First of all, I have a thread in the install forum with pictures. Did you get the NAV? Just wondering. My installer reccomended under the driver's seat. It works well there.

I did get the ExNAVi with leather seats and all the bells and whisles. I am thinking I will put the Amp under the driver's side passenger seat because there is more clearance, the seat comes out, and the carpet is cut already for the spare. Should make laying the cables pretty mindless and I can put the whole AMP under the seat. I did wonder if the installer had to drill a new hole in the firewall to run the cables? All openings to the engine seem to have gaskets around them which makes it increadibly difficult to sneak another cord in there.

Anyway, I hope you're enjoying your new ride. I still enjoy it after over a year of driving it. Look forward to two things when it comes to friends and your automatic doors:

1) a look of amazement
2) the phrase: "you don't have to push/pull it."


The best story so far for me was picking up some friends to take the new ride out. They were walking about 5 meters in front of me and I hung back to open the sliding doors from the remote. When the first one opened, they stopped and watched in awe. My friend Brian turned back and said, "Cool!" At the end of the night, he was asking his wife Jodi if they could trade in the F450 King Cab they have for the Mini-Van. She smiled and said no, until she is pregnant.

I am just loving the ride so much. Gas mileage is better than most mini-vans but not on par with the Civic I left behind. I am just glad my commute to work is all of 5 minutes. I also got the equiv of the "Southern Hospitality" service up here so I shouldn't have to worry about much for the first 100,000 miles. We shall see tho. Hopefully I will get the Empeg in this weekend. Spent the last one in Bermuda so time was not there.

Greg

the F450 King Cab they have

When I was in the US recently I figured out that Ford F150s were ludicrously big, F250s even bigger, and "crew cab" F350s (there was one in Sonic Blue's car park) utterly ludicrously big. I didn't even realise it went up to 450, but a look at Ford's web site shows the top of the range is the 750...

Peter

Yeah, one wonders how do those people pick their boats: I guess that provisions for several 40' containers or at least a modest general cargo hold with handling equipment is essential .

Typically these are people with nothing to transport whatsoever.

Calvin